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	<title>Comments on: Jesus: Who Was He, Really?</title>
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	<link>http://www.thinkingchristian.net/2008/06/jesus-who-was-he-really/</link>
	<description>Do Christians &#34;hold the truth?&#34; No, the Truth holds us...</description>
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		<title>By: Tom Gilson</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkingchristian.net/2008/06/jesus-who-was-he-really/#comment-9919</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Gilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 03:12:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;ve been really busy...

Emilio, much of the grandeur of Jesus is revealed in the way he humbled himself. See, for example, Philippians 2:1-11. He showed that his character is about more than power, more than flashiness; he came as a servant (Mark 10:45). His love was deep enough for him to connect with us on our own level. As a human he showed us how to live a fully human life; and as a human, he paid the sacrifice for humans&#039; sins. 

He was himself the sign, sent in a way that those who would receive it could receive it, and those who would reject it could reject it. For him to reveal himself in the power you have supposed he would use would deny every person the ability to receive him freely; and that freedom is something God intended to be our birthright.

To believe in Jesus, compared to founders or gods of other religions, is a matter of seeing his character as portrayed in the source documents, the Bible; to know that they are credible historically; to understand philosophically how he satisfies human questions; and to experience a relationship with him through faith and his freely given gift of life. I can perhaps develop those thoughts further at another time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been really busy&#8230;</p>
<p>Emilio, much of the grandeur of Jesus is revealed in the way he humbled himself. See, for example, <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Philippians+2%3A1-11" class="bibleref" title="ESV Philippians 2:1-11">Philippians 2:1-11</a>. He showed that his character is about more than power, more than flashiness; he came as a servant (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Mark+10%3A45" class="bibleref" title="ESV Mark 10:45">Mark 10:45</a>). His love was deep enough for him to connect with us on our own level. As a human he showed us how to live a fully human life; and as a human, he paid the sacrifice for humans&#8217; sins. </p>
<p>He was himself the sign, sent in a way that those who would receive it could receive it, and those who would reject it could reject it. For him to reveal himself in the power you have supposed he would use would deny every person the ability to receive him freely; and that freedom is something God intended to be our birthright.</p>
<p>To believe in Jesus, compared to founders or gods of other religions, is a matter of seeing his character as portrayed in the source documents, the Bible; to know that they are credible historically; to understand philosophically how he satisfies human questions; and to experience a relationship with him through faith and his freely given gift of life. I can perhaps develop those thoughts further at another time.</p>
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		<title>By: emilio</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkingchristian.net/2008/06/jesus-who-was-he-really/#comment-9916</link>
		<dc:creator>emilio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 00:19:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkingchristian.net/2008/06/jesus-who-was-he-really/#comment-9916</guid>
		<description>No reply!?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No reply!?</p>
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		<title>By: emilio</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkingchristian.net/2008/06/jesus-who-was-he-really/#comment-9825</link>
		<dc:creator>emilio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 23:46:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkingchristian.net/2008/06/jesus-who-was-he-really/#comment-9825</guid>
		<description>Hello Tom,

I am not denying what you say about God. I believe God is obvious everywhere you just have to look at everything around us and you see God. One just has to observe what lies behind many events happening in one&#039;s life and may see God.

I believe it is obvious, and in fact so obvious that a majority of people have a tendency to believe in God (even though the may be negative reasons leading to that belief).

But it is neither obvious that Jesus is God, nor that Buddah is or Allah or Jehovah are. If any of the thousands of religions invented by men were right...Then it would be obvious.

To go further on my critics about the belief in Jesus, but I can develop similar critics on Allah or Moses. I think that if God really sent his son on earth, that son would have had to accomplish better miracles than multiplying a few loafs of bread and healing a blind. Come on, you arrive on earth as the son of god and you are not able to solve the major problems of that time? You are not able to leave a message to the future generations about how the world will evolve (the revolution of electricity, oil, atoms and the risks humanity will face).Your message is so unclear that all your faithful followers write Gospels with so many differences ( and I am only talking about the ones from the new testament chosen by the Roman empire, not the apocryph ones they wanted to destroy).
Look at the power of the creation. Do you really think someone that powerful who wants to send us a sign will do it in such a weak way, at times when the population was hundreds of time smaller than today and when it cannot be proven that his message is true.

Really this is a joke! No one really looking at this story with an open mind can believe in it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Tom,</p>
<p>I am not denying what you say about God. I believe God is obvious everywhere you just have to look at everything around us and you see God. One just has to observe what lies behind many events happening in one&#8217;s life and may see God.</p>
<p>I believe it is obvious, and in fact so obvious that a majority of people have a tendency to believe in God (even though the may be negative reasons leading to that belief).</p>
<p>But it is neither obvious that Jesus is God, nor that Buddah is or Allah or Jehovah are. If any of the thousands of religions invented by men were right&#8230;Then it would be obvious.</p>
<p>To go further on my critics about the belief in Jesus, but I can develop similar critics on Allah or Moses. I think that if God really sent his son on earth, that son would have had to accomplish better miracles than multiplying a few loafs of bread and healing a blind. Come on, you arrive on earth as the son of god and you are not able to solve the major problems of that time? You are not able to leave a message to the future generations about how the world will evolve (the revolution of electricity, oil, atoms and the risks humanity will face).Your message is so unclear that all your faithful followers write Gospels with so many differences ( and I am only talking about the ones from the new testament chosen by the Roman empire, not the apocryph ones they wanted to destroy).<br />
Look at the power of the creation. Do you really think someone that powerful who wants to send us a sign will do it in such a weak way, at times when the population was hundreds of time smaller than today and when it cannot be proven that his message is true.</p>
<p>Really this is a joke! No one really looking at this story with an open mind can believe in it.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Gilson</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkingchristian.net/2008/06/jesus-who-was-he-really/#comment-9650</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Gilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Nov 2008 19:38:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkingchristian.net/2008/06/jesus-who-was-he-really/#comment-9650</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;If Jesus was really the one way to [G]od and [G]od is so true and powerfull then it would be obvious to the whole mankind. It is obvious we need air to breath and water and food to survive, it is not obvious Jesus is lord. So it cannot be true.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
(See &lt;a href=http://www.thinkingchristian.net/2007/12/discussion-policy/ rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; regarding the upper case G.)

Emilio, this is an interesting and important point you raise. It is not obvious to all that Jesus is Lord, that is certain. But does it follow that it cannot be true? There are many things we need to survive besides air and water and (generally speaking) food. It was not obvious to British sailors they needed vitamin C to survive, thus they developed scurvy. 

But perhaps that&#039;s a trivial analogy, since God&#039;s necessity is completely all-encompassing. Our need for him is much more closely parallel to our need for air.

Christian theology recognizes what you have said. I think the first thing to know is that while God is necessary for life, &lt;i&gt;belief&lt;/i&gt; in God is only necessary to a certain kind of life, &lt;i&gt;i.e&lt;/i&gt;, the strong, thriving, abundant, and eternal life that God promises for those who believe in him. Every person, indeed every living thing on this planet, draws life from God, whether they know it or not. Belief in God enables us to connect to the true source of life in a way that transcends and transforms ordinary human living.

But shouldn&#039;t even that more obvious? God has not deemed that it should be that way. It would violate the major purpose for which he created us, which is to live in a freely chosen attitude and state of loving trust toward him. If he were as obvious now as air is, we would not choose him freely, any more than we decide whether we like the idea of breathing or not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If Jesus was really the one way to [G]od and [G]od is so true and powerfull then it would be obvious to the whole mankind. It is obvious we need air to breath and water and food to survive, it is not obvious Jesus is lord. So it cannot be true.</p></blockquote>
<p>(See <a href=http://www.thinkingchristian.net/2007/12/discussion-policy/ rel="nofollow">here</a> regarding the upper case G.)</p>
<p>Emilio, this is an interesting and important point you raise. It is not obvious to all that Jesus is Lord, that is certain. But does it follow that it cannot be true? There are many things we need to survive besides air and water and (generally speaking) food. It was not obvious to British sailors they needed vitamin C to survive, thus they developed scurvy. </p>
<p>But perhaps that&#8217;s a trivial analogy, since God&#8217;s necessity is completely all-encompassing. Our need for him is much more closely parallel to our need for air.</p>
<p>Christian theology recognizes what you have said. I think the first thing to know is that while God is necessary for life, <i>belief</i> in God is only necessary to a certain kind of life, <i>i.e</i>, the strong, thriving, abundant, and eternal life that God promises for those who believe in him. Every person, indeed every living thing on this planet, draws life from God, whether they know it or not. Belief in God enables us to connect to the true source of life in a way that transcends and transforms ordinary human living.</p>
<p>But shouldn&#8217;t even that more obvious? God has not deemed that it should be that way. It would violate the major purpose for which he created us, which is to live in a freely chosen attitude and state of loving trust toward him. If he were as obvious now as air is, we would not choose him freely, any more than we decide whether we like the idea of breathing or not.</p>
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		<title>By: emilio</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkingchristian.net/2008/06/jesus-who-was-he-really/#comment-9648</link>
		<dc:creator>emilio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Nov 2008 13:36:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkingchristian.net/2008/06/jesus-who-was-he-really/#comment-9648</guid>
		<description>You wrote:

- Great care given to guard against making Jesus a member of our own party.

But isnt it what christians have dones? There are dozens (maybe hundreds) of different Christian religions invented or promoted by men to become rich or powerfull and to control other men. 

To name a few: The Roman emperors, Henry VIII king of England, the German princes backing Luther, the catholic kings of Europe. Joseph Smith or Mary Baker Eddy....

They all share the name of Jesus and the simple image of a cross which makes people believe that this trademark is somehow valid.

If Jesus was really the one way to god and god is so true and powerfull then it would be obvious to the whole mankind. It is obvious we need air to breath and water and food to survive, it is not obvious Jesus is lord. So it cannot be true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You wrote:</p>
<p>- Great care given to guard against making Jesus a member of our own party.</p>
<p>But isnt it what christians have dones? There are dozens (maybe hundreds) of different Christian religions invented or promoted by men to become rich or powerfull and to control other men. </p>
<p>To name a few: The Roman emperors, Henry VIII king of England, the German princes backing Luther, the catholic kings of Europe. Joseph Smith or Mary Baker Eddy&#8230;.</p>
<p>They all share the name of Jesus and the simple image of a cross which makes people believe that this trademark is somehow valid.</p>
<p>If Jesus was really the one way to god and god is so true and powerfull then it would be obvious to the whole mankind. It is obvious we need air to breath and water and food to survive, it is not obvious Jesus is lord. So it cannot be true.</p>
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