Comments on: P.Z. Myers Crashes “Expelled” Again? http://www.thinkingchristian.net/2008/03/this-is-going-to-raise-another-ruckus/ Do Christians "hold the truth?" No, the Truth holds us... Tue, 09 Mar 2010 19:50:24 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Tom Gilson http://www.thinkingchristian.net/2008/03/this-is-going-to-raise-another-ruckus/#comment-2517 Tom Gilson Fri, 28 Mar 2008 20:58:04 +0000 http://www.thinkingchristian.net/?p=1310#comment-2517 How did Myers get his invitation? An email correspondent reveals: <a href=\"http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/03/i_always_aim_to_misbehave.php#comment-80894\" rel=\"nofollow\">This comment</a> was recently posted on Pharyngula by Kristine, who I believe is PZ\'s grad student (but I could be wrong about that...) How did Myers get his invitation? An email correspondent reveals:

This comment was recently posted on Pharyngula by Kristine, who I believe is PZ\’s grad student (but I could be wrong about that…)

]]> By: Jim Lippard http://www.thinkingchristian.net/2008/03/this-is-going-to-raise-another-ruckus/#comment-2516 Jim Lippard Fri, 28 Mar 2008 19:15:55 +0000 http://www.thinkingchristian.net/?p=1310#comment-2516 Tom: It\'s too bad you deleted Norman Doering\'s link to his blog post. It\'s actually a quite interesting post about how the Nazis actually banned writings promoting Darwinism, and how it was creationist Edward Blyth\'s ideas that led to eugenics. Norman also points out multiple passages from Hitler\'s _Mein Kampf_ which look more like something written by a creationist than an evolutionist. Tom: It\’s too bad you deleted Norman Doering\’s link to his blog post. It\’s actually a quite interesting post about how the Nazis actually banned writings promoting Darwinism, and how it was creationist Edward Blyth\’s ideas that led to eugenics. Norman also points out multiple passages from Hitler\’s _Mein Kampf_ which look more like something written by a creationist than an evolutionist.

]]> By: Barry Trask http://www.thinkingchristian.net/2008/03/this-is-going-to-raise-another-ruckus/#comment-2515 Barry Trask Fri, 28 Mar 2008 19:10:35 +0000 http://www.thinkingchristian.net/?p=1310#comment-2515 How about deleting your ridiculous insult to Darwin? That would be a good ad hominem to start with... Barry How about deleting your ridiculous insult to Darwin? That would be a good ad hominem to start with…

Barry

]]> By: Alex http://www.thinkingchristian.net/2008/03/this-is-going-to-raise-another-ruckus/#comment-2514 Alex Fri, 28 Mar 2008 19:10:06 +0000 http://www.thinkingchristian.net/?p=1310#comment-2514 Give me a break. Myers did not \"crash\" the screening of Expelled, and it was NOT invitation only. Just writing that on your blog does not make it true. Your arguments must have a basis in reality, they must have supporting evidence. Give me a break. Myers did not \”crash\” the screening of Expelled, and it was NOT invitation only. Just writing that on your blog does not make it true. Your arguments must have a basis in reality, they must have supporting evidence.

]]> By: Barry Trask http://www.thinkingchristian.net/2008/03/this-is-going-to-raise-another-ruckus/#comment-2513 Barry Trask Fri, 28 Mar 2008 19:06:35 +0000 http://www.thinkingchristian.net/?p=1310#comment-2513 And, Tom: have you even read The Origin of Species? I\'ll bet you have not. Barry And, Tom: have you even read The Origin of Species? I\’ll bet you have not.

Barry

]]> By: Christopher Waldrop http://www.thinkingchristian.net/2008/03/this-is-going-to-raise-another-ruckus/#comment-2511 Christopher Waldrop Fri, 28 Mar 2008 19:04:43 +0000 http://www.thinkingchristian.net/?p=1310#comment-2511 Tom, Myers has addressed the false claim that this was an \"invitation only\" screening and that he was not invited. He registered and received a confirmation to attend beforehand. It\'s the film\'s producers who have a problem with the facts. As for oversimplifying the argument, I think the poster of Ben Stein spray-painting \"Darwin\" on a Nazi belt-buckle speaks for itself. Tom, Myers has addressed the false claim that this was an \”invitation only\” screening and that he was not invited. He registered and received a confirmation to attend beforehand. It\’s the film\’s producers who have a problem with the facts.
As for oversimplifying the argument, I think the poster of Ben Stein spray-painting \”Darwin\” on a Nazi belt-buckle speaks for itself.

]]> By: Barry Trask http://www.thinkingchristian.net/2008/03/this-is-going-to-raise-another-ruckus/#comment-2512 Barry Trask Fri, 28 Mar 2008 19:04:43 +0000 http://www.thinkingchristian.net/?p=1310#comment-2512 ...and, of course, because if you\'re going to take a position that flies in the face of reason, you need to think about how to frame that position before you dive in. You really ought to save yourself the trouble and just admit that you said a dumb, dumb thing. Barry …and, of course, because if you\’re going to take a position that flies in the face of reason, you need to think about how to frame that position before you dive in. You really ought to save yourself the trouble and just admit that you said a dumb, dumb thing.

Barry

]]> By: jonathan http://www.thinkingchristian.net/2008/03/this-is-going-to-raise-another-ruckus/#comment-2510 jonathan Fri, 28 Mar 2008 19:04:39 +0000 http://www.thinkingchristian.net/?p=1310#comment-2510 Tom, the \"necessary condition(s)\" for the Holocaust were a long history of antisemitism, an atmosphere of nationalistic fear, and a psychotic ruler willing to misuse ANY idea to fit his insane program. If you look at the modern genocides in parts of Africa or if you read the Old Testament descriptions of genocides (Numbers 31 comes to mind), you\'ll see that evolution is in no way a necessary condition for us to be really nasty to each other. Tom, the \”necessary condition(s)\” for the Holocaust were a long history of antisemitism, an atmosphere of nationalistic fear, and a psychotic ruler willing to misuse ANY idea to fit his insane program.

If you look at the modern genocides in parts of Africa or if you read the Old Testament descriptions of genocides (Numbers 31 comes to mind), you\’ll see that evolution is in no way a necessary condition for us to be really nasty to each other.

]]> By: Barry Trask http://www.thinkingchristian.net/2008/03/this-is-going-to-raise-another-ruckus/#comment-2509 Barry Trask Fri, 28 Mar 2008 19:00:01 +0000 http://www.thinkingchristian.net/?p=1310#comment-2509 Oh, for gosh sakes...\"Darwinism\" a necessary condition to the holocaust...do you know how asinine that sounds? Do you listen to yourself? Do you have any idea at all what you are saying? So, genocide and anti-semitism--two things which have existed for thousands of years--these two things could not have come together were it not for a British naturalist arriving at the view that speciation is caused by the natural selection of adaptive variations. Suuuuuure. That makes sense. How could anyone have been so blind as not to see that before? Until Darwin, anti-semites could NEVER have put two and two together and figured out, \"hey, we could use GENOCIDE to get rid of the Jews! Thanks, Mr. Darwin! If I didn\'t know all this stuff about pigeon breeding from reading The Origin of Species, I would never have thought of that!\" Cripes. Study history, biology, and above all, LOGIC before you say something that silly. Barry Oh, for gosh sakes…\”Darwinism\” a necessary condition to the holocaust…do you know how asinine that sounds? Do you listen to yourself? Do you have any idea at all what you are saying?

So, genocide and anti-semitism–two things which have existed for thousands of years–these two things could not have come together were it not for a British naturalist arriving at the view that speciation is caused by the natural selection of adaptive variations. Suuuuuure. That makes sense. How could anyone have been so blind as not to see that before? Until Darwin, anti-semites could NEVER have put two and two together and figured out, \”hey, we could use GENOCIDE to get rid of the Jews! Thanks, Mr. Darwin! If I didn\’t know all this stuff about pigeon breeding from reading The Origin of Species, I would never have thought of that!\”

Cripes. Study history, biology, and above all, LOGIC before you say something that silly.

Barry

]]> By: Ian http://www.thinkingchristian.net/2008/03/this-is-going-to-raise-another-ruckus/#comment-2508 Ian Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:58:55 +0000 http://www.thinkingchristian.net/?p=1310#comment-2508 Tom: do you also maintain that Darwinism was a necessary condition for the Pogrom of 1096, the massacres of Jews in London and York in 1189-1190, the massacres in 1348, the massacres of Jews and Roman Catholics by the Cossacks in 1648–1654, and the anti-Jewish riots in Odessa in 1821? If not, then what made the Holocaust different? Tom: do you also maintain that Darwinism was a necessary condition for the Pogrom of 1096, the massacres of Jews in London and York in 1189-1190, the massacres in 1348, the massacres of Jews and Roman Catholics by the Cossacks in 1648–1654, and the anti-Jewish riots in Odessa in 1821? If not, then what made the Holocaust different?

]]> By: Norman Doering http://www.thinkingchristian.net/2008/03/this-is-going-to-raise-another-ruckus/#comment-2507 Norman Doering Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:52:23 +0000 http://www.thinkingchristian.net/?p=1310#comment-2507 Tom Gilson wrote: <blockquote>The connection between Darwinism and the Holocaust is not a lie when it is understood the way thoughtful people have presented it.</blockquote> Feel free to present that \"thoughtful way\" here: http://normdoering.blogspot.com/2007/04/if-hitler-was-darwinist.html http://normdoering.blogspot.com/2007/04/if-hitler-was-atheist.html Tom Gilson wrote:

The connection between Darwinism and the Holocaust is not a lie when it is understood the way thoughtful people have presented it.

Feel free to present that \”thoughtful way\” here:
http://normdoering.blogspot.com/2007/04/if-hitler-was-darwinist.html
http://normdoering.blogspot.com/2007/04/if-hitler-was-atheist.html

]]> By: adam mclane http://www.thinkingchristian.net/2008/03/this-is-going-to-raise-another-ruckus/#comment-2506 adam mclane Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:45:26 +0000 http://www.thinkingchristian.net/?p=1310#comment-2506 We will be adding some to the discussion as well. We sat in on the same phone call. http://ymexchange.com/blog/2008/03/28/ben-steins-expelled-documentary-media-call-hacked-by-pz-meyers/ We will be adding some to the discussion as well. We sat in on the same phone call.

http://ymexchange.com/blog/2008/03/28/ben-steins-expelled-documentary-media-call-hacked-by-pz-meyers/

]]> By: jonathan http://www.thinkingchristian.net/2008/03/this-is-going-to-raise-another-ruckus/#comment-2505 jonathan Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:44:40 +0000 http://www.thinkingchristian.net/?p=1310#comment-2505 PZ Myers did, in fact, join the Expelled conference call. And, apparently, he did accuse Stein, et al., of lying. Being a scientist, it sounds like he even provided evidence to back up the assertion. Perhaps the makers of Expelled will release a transcript of the call. I\'d rather not simply take someone\'s word for what was said... This post makes the claim that PZ Myers wasn\'t invited to the MI screening of Expelled. I went to the Expelled website, and it is an open invitation just as PZ claims. Perhaps Mr. Gilson should look at the their website before parroting that particular line. In what way is an open invitation NOT an invitation? That\'s simply a bizarre claim. Secondly, there have been several substantive articles and blog posts by both PZ Myers, Richard Dawkins, and other about the actual content of the movie. I would refer Mr. Gilson <a href=\"http://expelledexposed.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"> ExpelledExposed.com</a> for a list of some of these articles and blog posts. Keep checking back! they\'ll be adding more. If you want to know how PZ got voice capabilities, read his blog post on the incident. It\'s hilarious. PZ Myers did, in fact, join the Expelled conference call. And, apparently, he did accuse Stein, et al., of lying. Being a scientist, it sounds like he even provided evidence to back up the assertion. Perhaps the makers of Expelled will release a transcript of the call. I\’d rather not simply take someone\’s word for what was said…

This post makes the claim that PZ Myers wasn\’t invited to the MI screening of Expelled. I went to the Expelled website, and it is an open invitation just as PZ claims. Perhaps Mr. Gilson should look at the their website before parroting that particular line. In what way is an open invitation NOT an invitation? That\’s simply a bizarre claim.

Secondly, there have been several substantive articles and blog posts by both PZ Myers, Richard Dawkins, and other about the actual content of the movie. I would refer Mr. Gilson ExpelledExposed.com for a list of some of these articles and blog posts. Keep checking back! they\’ll be adding more.

If you want to know how PZ got voice capabilities, read his blog post on the incident. It\’s hilarious.

]]> By: Christopher Waldrop http://www.thinkingchristian.net/2008/03/this-is-going-to-raise-another-ruckus/#comment-2504 Christopher Waldrop Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:35:15 +0000 http://www.thinkingchristian.net/?p=1310#comment-2504 Ian, you\'re being too kind in talking about \"the claim made in this post...\" This post in fact simply repeats one of many lies made by the producers of the film. Among Mark Mathis, Ben Stein, and the other individuals promoting the idea that Darwinism was responsible for the Holocaust, there really is no intelligence allowed. Ian, you\’re being too kind in talking about \”the claim made in this post…\” This post in fact simply repeats one of many lies made by the producers of the film. Among Mark Mathis, Ben Stein, and the other individuals promoting the idea that Darwinism was responsible for the Holocaust, there really is no intelligence allowed.

]]> By: Ian http://www.thinkingchristian.net/2008/03/this-is-going-to-raise-another-ruckus/#comment-2503 Ian Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:30:12 +0000 http://www.thinkingchristian.net/?p=1310#comment-2503 Will: Myers describes exactly what he did in his own blog post on the incident (already linked to above, but <a href=\"http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/03/i_always_aim_to_misbehave.php\" rel=\"nofollow\">here it is again for good measure</a>. He also refutes there the claim made in this post that the attacks on <i>Expelled</i> haven\'t addressed the substance of the movie. Will: Myers describes exactly what he did in his own blog post on the incident (already linked to above, but here it is again for good measure. He also refutes there the claim made in this post that the attacks on Expelled haven\’t addressed the substance of the movie.

]]> By: SteveK http://www.thinkingchristian.net/2008/03/this-is-going-to-raise-another-ruckus/#comment-2441 SteveK Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:26:18 +0000 http://www.thinkingchristian.net/?p=1310#comment-2441 Tom, I appreciate a good controversy, but is there any thing convincing out there to link the real PZ with the person breaking in on the call? If there isn\'t then I side with the skeptics even though I personally have a low opinion of PZ\'s character. Tom,
I appreciate a good controversy, but is there any thing convincing out there to link the real PZ with the person breaking in on the call? If there isn\’t then I side with the skeptics even though I personally have a low opinion of PZ\’s character.

]]> By: Will TS http://www.thinkingchristian.net/2008/03/this-is-going-to-raise-another-ruckus/#comment-2502 Will TS Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:20:43 +0000 http://www.thinkingchristian.net/?p=1310#comment-2502 How does one break in on a conference call? Did you participate in the conference call? Was the phone call taped? Do you have a transcript? Is there any actual evidence that Myers interrupted Stein\'s conversation? Or do we have to accept it as a matter of faith? How does one break in on a conference call? Did you participate in the conference call? Was the phone call taped? Do you have a transcript? Is there any actual evidence that Myers interrupted Stein\’s conversation? Or do we have to accept it as a matter of faith?

]]> By: Mark http://www.thinkingchristian.net/2008/03/this-is-going-to-raise-another-ruckus/#comment-2501 Mark Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:19:08 +0000 http://www.thinkingchristian.net/?p=1310#comment-2501 There have been many substantive criticisms of the movie. There has been criticism of its specious argument that evolutionary theory was a precondition to the Holocaust (despite genocidal impulses clearly predating Darwin, which should have made that bit of stupid a non-starter without even having to study evolution), its failing to explain the scientific method or detail the scientific merits of neo-Creationism (I mean why would that be important in determining why neo-Creationism doesn\'t have a seat at the table?), its erroneous portrayal of persecution by interviewees, and its nebulous invocation of \"free speech.\" You just aren\'t looking. The matter of them excluding PZ Myers was simply comedic hypocrisy. Further if you really think that Dawkins is gentler to religion than PZ Myers, then I suggest it\'s because you haven\'t listened to him speak or read his latest book. There have been many substantive criticisms of the movie. There has been criticism of its specious argument that evolutionary theory was a precondition to the Holocaust (despite genocidal impulses clearly predating Darwin, which should have made that bit of stupid a non-starter without even having to study evolution), its failing to explain the scientific method or detail the scientific merits of neo-Creationism (I mean why would that be important in determining why neo-Creationism doesn\’t have a seat at the table?), its erroneous portrayal of persecution by interviewees, and its nebulous invocation of \”free speech.\” You just aren\’t looking. The matter of them excluding PZ Myers was simply comedic hypocrisy.

Further if you really think that Dawkins is gentler to religion than PZ Myers, then I suggest it\’s because you haven\’t listened to him speak or read his latest book.

]]> By: Norman Doering http://www.thinkingchristian.net/2008/03/this-is-going-to-raise-another-ruckus/#comment-2500 Norman Doering Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:09:36 +0000 http://www.thinkingchristian.net/?p=1310#comment-2500 He did it: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/03/i_always_aim_to_misbehave.php He did it:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/03/i_always_aim_to_misbehave.php

]]> By: Norman Doering http://www.thinkingchristian.net/2008/03/this-is-going-to-raise-another-ruckus/#comment-2499 Norman Doering Fri, 28 Mar 2008 17:40:48 +0000 http://www.thinkingchristian.net/?p=1310#comment-2499 I just commented on PZ\'s blog asking if he did that. By the way, here\'s some stuff on Ben Stein: http://normdoering.blogspot.com/2008/03/ben-stein-admits-he-has-only-little-pea.html http://normdoering.blogspot.com/2008/02/ben-stein-crouching-theocon-hidden-nit.html I just commented on PZ\’s blog asking if he did that.

By the way, here\’s some stuff on Ben Stein:
http://normdoering.blogspot.com/2008/03/ben-stein-admits-he-has-only-little-pea.html
http://normdoering.blogspot.com/2008/02/ben-stein-crouching-theocon-hidden-nit.html

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